ES150 will not run right!!

[ScotBob]

Hi Bob,
You say the oil is coming out of the output shaft, but the other end is above the oil level and I would think protected from splashing by the clutch basket.
Are you sure there is not too much oil in the case. It should be 450ml.
It might also account for a lack of power due to drag.

Hi Dave, level is correct, I double checked this and left the oil level screw out over night so if there was excess it would run out. It really is a mystery, the oil literally squirts out under pressure. Also the bike was running fine for 100s of miles before it suddenly started acting up. I changed the oil when I first got it as it was leaking I thought from the clutch cover, so I replaced the gasket and measured the correct amount of oil to refill. I also measured what came out and it was only half of what should have been it, thee was also a lot of swarf on the drain plug.

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.

[AlanJ]

Hi Bob,
From the bearing failure, it's starting to make some sense because you say starting is ok, as is tick over, as the shafts are not turning very fast
the seals can cope with this. As you open the throttle, then the seals can't cope with the vibration allowing pressure into the box. I guess the
reason you are not getting smoke maybe, revs pressure the box not allowing oil into the sump, but with low revs the seals hold ok.
To be honest Bob as I said before, I have never heard of this problem so this is only just thoughts.
Stay safe Alan.

[ScotBob]

Uhmm... your bearings failed in such a way that the crankshaft hits the case? I would expect you'd notice such catastrophic failure. Instead of just a rumble in the footsteps I'd expect the bike would be jumping up & down angrily, each stroke! And the seals are still OK...?

But yes, bearing failure could explain the poor running: your ignition timing will be all over the place. Main bearing failure can come suddenly, in a split second: when a cage fails, liberating 1 or 2 balls. But that usually gives just a minute bit of extra clearance, yet is still quite audible. And upset the timing. Quite possible, but I expect the scoring on the crankshaft to have another cause.



With the rotating clutch I expect there'll be a sort of mist of oil droplets all throughout the gearbox, so if something does come out past that clutch pushrod, I'm not surprised it's oil.
The construction looks very similar to what Jawa use, and there it has a seal on the outside. That seal should stop any leaking if properly installed. (Older versions had a felt pad there, which leaked a little bit - perfect for auto-lubing the chain.)

Too be honest, i'm only assuming it was hitting the casing, when turning the crank at the moment it does not seem to be hitting anything? But when measuring the gap either side of the crank it does seem to be off about 1.5 / 2mm not sure if that's enough to cause damage or poor running, but again i'm guessing a bearing may be out if the crank has tilted, it's purely guesswork for now, but until it's pulled apart I really have no clue.

I would assume there was a seal where the clutch rod goes through, perhaps on the clutch side? there is not one on the ignition side, the layshaft has a seal which I did change but made no difference.

[dave47]

Its a shame the "too much oil" theory was wrong: it would have been an easy fix! But probably time to drop the oil anyway and check under the LH cover, especially for lateral play at both ends of the crankshaft. Also any up/down play on the conrod at tdc/bdc.
Re: flywheel damage. Recent or historic? Caused by crankcase contact or hard foreign object.
Re: off-centre crank. Recent movement or careless rebuild in the past?

[ScotBob]

So I have drained the oil today, see pics: less than 450ml came out so not too much oil, but look at the amount of metal on the magnetic plug and the oil is full of it!!

[dave47]

There are 2 drain plugs, one under the gearbox, the other under the LH cover. Apologies if you knew that. Yes, that is certainly a lot of swarf, but I'm not sure of its excesive.

[Blurredman]

Yes, that is certainly a lot of swarf, but I'm not sure of its excesive.

It surely is if the oil was changed when he first got the bike and has done only 300 miles?




Is there play in the crankshaft? up/down/left/right?

[dave47]

@BM, Of course you are right, I expressed myself badly. I meant to write that I wasn't sure if it had any bearing on the problem under discussion.

[ScotBob]

There are 2 drain plugs, one under the gearbox, the other under the LH cover. Apologies if you knew that. Yes, that is certainly a lot of swarf, but I'm not sure of its excesive.

Got them both thanks, just removed clutch cover and seems a bodge job, clutch nut lock washer not fixed as the tabs are broken off:

[ScotBob]

Yes, that is certainly a lot of swarf, but I'm not sure of its excesive.

It surely is if the oil was changed when he first got the bike and has done only 300 miles?




Is there play in the crankshaft? up/down/left/right?

Yep; probably less than 300 miles since the oil change, ref crank play I need to get the clutch basket and primary sprocket off to assess it, but not got the tools, i'm waiting on them arriving. There is a little play in the con rod side to side but none up and down.

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.

[Gerryman Ts125]

Mz TS 125-150 (shared with the Es) same bike, same engines, different bore slightly bigger carb and jets on the 150's, but that is about as much that the factory did. The clutch is internally driven by a chain. When rebuilding the engine, there's lots of small washers bolts can fall into the clutch side. (My ts's both had a habit of bolts and washers falling in) instead of taking the clutch casing off I would drain the oil and all (or most) of the errant bolts/washers would come out either with the oil or on the gearbox plugs magnet. And lots and lots of swarf after about 500miles.. Eeeeekkkk I mean really plenty of it. It looked just like grinding paste. In a way, that is what it was .
As the Mz is really prehistoric, when they were built.

And as said, no seal, I didn't need a Scott oiler on my TS, it had one built in..

[Gerryman Ts125]

I forgot to add, that after my second TS 125 was ran in, (500 miles) I got hypoid 80 in my replenished gearbox. After that, I filled it everytime with 20/50 and any new crappy oil. As I replaced the oil every 500 miles. And it looked like I had dragged the magnet at the end of the sealing plug, through the swarf from a milling machines bin [*]

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.