ETZ 125 KICKSTARTER PROBLEM

[seancost]

Hi, newbie here. I'm sending this more in hope than expectation - I think I already know the answer!

Does anyone know if the kickstarter return spring on an ETZ 125 can be reset/replaced without removing the clutch? It's always been floppy, and when I had the engine cover off to repair/reset the tachometer drive I inadvertently wound it back past its stop on the crankcase. Once wound back the right way, the end of the spring which goes into the kickstarter shaft seems to have either broken or just slipped out. It creates some tension on the clockwise starter stroke, but then slips again so won't return. I can't see the inner end of the spring, of course, as it's under the kickstarter sprocket on the back of the clutch drum. Winding it round very slowly while wiggling it and hoping it would fall back into the slot on the shaft hasn't worked. Needless to say, I have neither the specialist puller nor the expertise to remove the clutch!

While we're at it, though I've done the cylinder/piston, brakes and fork seals, now I've reached the end point of my limited mechanical expertise. Is anyone aware of someone good I could pay to do the more technical jobs on the MZ in the London area?

Cheers - Sean

[Jay Bee]

You will need to remove the clutch/primary drive to attend to the kickstart spring -I think you knew this anyway.....
The clutch should remove from the shaft OK, but as the primary chain is endless, the clutch/chain/crank sprocket must be all removed at the same time, and an extractor is required for the crankshaft sprocket to remove it from its taper. I think you knew this already, as well.
The extractor is not expensive - here's an example :-
https://www.themzshop.co.uk/store/ts125-150/cylinder-piston-crank-ts125-150/primary-drive-sprocket-puller/

Your biggest problem will be preventing the shafts turning when undoing the nuts.
Do you have a manual ?

[seancost]

Many thanks, Jay Bee.

I did have one more go. As more poking about disclosed that the problem was that the tang on the spring which holds it to the kickstarter shaft had broken off, my son suggested that I try to unwind the spring and remove it in situ, bend a new tang and wind it back on. The spring is of course too substantial for that - it came off OK, but there was no way to get it started back on due to the presence of the quadrant cog. And, once I bent a new tang, it was by no means the spring it was and would doubtfully have worked anyway.

My next lazy plan was to dispense with it and use an external bungee cord on the kicker. Even I baulked at that level of bodge, so I'll order a new spring, washers and sprocket removal tool and do it properly. I'm working from a Haynes manual, which includes some expedients for stopping the engine turning.

Best wishes

Sean

[Jay Bee]

Sean -
Good to hear that you are willing to have a go at fixing it. The heinous manual should be sufficient in enabling this.
These are relatively simple machines; for me, the very essence of MZ's is their DIY appeal - and if you can't fix it yourself there is usually another owner of a similar machine reasonably local who is willing to help (or at least, there used to be).
My work ethic with bike repairs is do it once, do it right - and avoid having to do it again. I can get quite annoyed with myself if I have to do something a second time.....
Keep us posted with your progress.

[seancost]

Thanks again, Jaybee. Still struggling with this. I broke the clutch taking it off - part of the inner sheared off where I'd clumsily braced it. Ordered another, along with a clever plastic engine immobiliser tool off ebay to help me be less clumsy, only to find I'd done more damage than I thought. Now think I need a new drum (I'd put it a little out of shape, then tried to bend back) and friction plates (one or two tangs broken off, presumably due to revised shape of drum). Once it went back together it would neither engage nor disengage properly. Best of all, despite a new spring and washers, the kickstarter does not even return. On checking, one of the teeth on the quadrant is broken off, which presumably explains (not guilty of that).
I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I find this bike much the most difficult vehicle to work on I've ever owned! A complete engine rebuild on a Trabant a couple of years ago was a breeze in comparison. Maybe I've just got hold of a bad one. It would help if I could find someone reliable to do the bits I can't. Having bought it as a running wreck in 2019, the general motorcycle repair guy I used first cheerfully charged me a fortune on the basis that he was "learning how it worked as he went along". Then a "specialist" I was recommended (I won't name him, as it's possible he reads this site) did some OK work including a new clutch then stopped answering my texts when some of that work went wrong. Once I figured out how it all went together, I could see why some of it did - no thrust washers on the kickstart shaft, and a couple of other chewed up washers sitting in the bottom of the engine cover - he told me he'd "packed out" the tachometer drive with them when that stopped working after he fitted the clutch. He seems to have forgotten to put on the circlip, which might explain the broken tooth. Sorry for moaning - but it has done me a bit of good before I give Kultmopeds another £100!

[DAVID THOMPSON]

times have changed even the HAM RADIO STUFF IS GETTING HARD TO FIX
dave WD8CYV

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.

[seancost]

Thanks both. I was a little unfair on the (still unnamed) specialist. Notwithstanding the missing washers and circlips, he did a good new clutch and a partial rewire, plus a very nice paint and detail on the engine covers. And I don't have a divine right to have my texts answered!
I know I'm making hard work of this. I found the Trab very easy to work on as it had a sort of brutal logic to it. As a non-natural mechanic, I need to be able to understand and visualise how something works to be able to fix/replace it. With a little thought, you could easily work out what did what on that little car, even things like some very ingenious rotary reeds flanking the crankshaft. On the bike, given the understandable space limitations, everything's hidden under everything else or has a weird connection through to the other side of the engine. The Haynes manual is OK, as are two good German re-builds on Youtube, but understanding what does what takes longer and before I know it I've bust something trying to remove it.
Nearly got it to where I want it, though, and new parts are on order.

[Jay Bee]

Sean -
I've been out of circulation for several days, owing to a bout of 'flu. Just read your post of 20th. Dec. and my heart sank...........

Brace yourself - this is going to seem a little harsh.
How on earth did you manage to break the clutch centre AND damage the clutch basket ? I had warned you about the difficulty of preventing shafts turning when undoing nuts and you mentioned the Haynes manual detailed expedients to deal with this. I took this to mean you were fully aware of the dangers..... (This would apply equally to almost any motorcycle clutch, not merely MZs, of course)
Your "general motorcycle repair guy" was obviously a very poor choice - you should have dispensed with his services straight away. Unfortunately, you appear to have fared little better with the so-called "specialist" - was his speciality to end up with a pile of parts left over after a primary drive strip ?
I'm lost for an explanation of how the kickstart should fail to return after fitting a new spring and I don't see how a missing tooth on the quadrant could cause it. Did you "wind on" (preload) the spring ?
How did the tooth get broken, anyway ?
You are making very heavy weather of a simple job and earlier hinted that you may have a bad bike - I seriously doubt it/ no, you don't. Please don't blame the bike for your own ineptitude.

I'm struggling with responding further as my text keeps getting deleted - If you wish I will PM you...