Black Panther --> Enduro: Wheel swap 21"/18" ?

[Τοβίας Χάος]

Hey everyone!

I just, rather unexpectedly, came into possession of a 2001 Black Panther. Hasn't been moved for a while but seems to be in good condition. I might need to get back to this forum once I have it here and know more about what needs to be done.

Anyway, I am currently using my RD07 Africa Twin for trail riding (and I love it); I would love to get the Baghira out on the trails, too. It's a very very capable bike, great engine, awesome components. Maybe a bit heavy for some, but still 100kg lighter than the AT, so a fly-weight for me!

The bike comes with Supermoto wheels and I would need to get MX/Enduro wheels in 21" and 18" somehow. I know there have been threads and I went through them but most of them are really old and I would love to know if there have been any other solutions by now?

Who has experience with this? Which wheels can be fit? How much work is it? What needs to be changed? What price range can be expected? Things like that.

If anyone has offroad-experience with the SuMo wheels, I'd also be interested in hearing about that!

Thanks in advance and greetings from Croatia.

[DAVID THOMPSON]

use the wheels just get some tires that fit the dirt in your area

where i live all the bikes run street tires

we go mudding in a 4 wheel drive

[Τοβίας Χάος]

use the wheels just get some tires that fit the dirt in your area

where i live all the bikes run street tires

we go mudding in a 4 wheel drive

Haha, thanks!

There are no real knobblies available in that size - and I also wouldn't wanna go trail riding with a 160 in the back and a 17" in the front.

Well, I have street tires on my street bike ('96 VFR 750). The trail bike needs trail tires, though.

Naaah, 4 wheels are two too much.

So - I still hope to get some feedback/advice...

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.

[Τοβίας Χάος]

Hi Toby,

Looking at https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model ... anther.htm, indeed an 21" F should fit, but I'd still make sure: take out the springs & see how far up that wheel comes.

Hey! I went through the complete spare parts list - both models are 100% identical except for the wheels/brakes. Which means, forks and swingarm are the same, so the wheels will fit without doubt.

I wouldn't know which alternative wheels would fit, but if you're determined you can always re-lace other rims onto the original hubs. In principle a 17" at the R shouldn't be too much of a problem (many dual purpose bikes have that, and maybe you can fit something smaller than 160/60-17), but if you combine it with a 21" at the F the geometry might become a bit lazy. 17"R/19"F is possible too, and more direct & better fitting the original steering geometry, and in that you can find ample tyres.

I'd like to go for 90/90-21 and 120 or 130/80-18 - just works best. I'm sure someone here has put on wheels from another model. I guess I could try to do research on which other bikes use the same forks... Still hoping someone will have some advice!

At 164kg dry it'll remain a dual purpose bike, but with that XT engine & Paioli/WP suspension (280mm on either side) it should be great for trail riding. Good luck!

Exactly!
The components are fantastic, it would be such a fun trail bike! Sure, it's not mega light but 160 kg are fine. My Twin weights in at about 230 kg....

[Puffs]

Which 'works best' will remain a subjective choice, but many of the big trails bikes have 17" at the rear. In the past I extensively used a DR600 for trail riding; case in point. But I admit that 18"R/21"F is a conventional choice for enduro bikes, while even 19"R/21"F has gained popularity in both MX & enduro. Yet neither MX nor enduro uses trails bikes.

And here one other issue plays a role: if you change the OD of the wheels, you also change the steering geometry. With a bigger F wheel, the forks will become more horizontally oriented. I do not know how much development work MZ put into steering geometry, or if the steering head angle of the SuperMotard version is different from other Skorpions, but offhand it might be sensible to not diverge too much from the original design. Of course it's your choice.

How much weight is acceptable depends on your own physique & technique, but most of all on the conditions you ride in. On the big open plains in Africa a bit of weight hurts a lot less than on tight rocky forest climbs.

[Τοβίας Χάος]

Which 'works best' will remain a subjective choice, but many of the big trails bikes have 17" at the rear. In the past I extensively used a DR600 for trail riding; case in point. But I admit that 18"R/21"F is a conventional choice for enduro bikes, while even 19"R/21"F has gained popularity in both MX & enduro. Yet neither MX nor enduro uses trails bikes.

You're right, of course - I should have added "for me". Yeah, it's true, there are different set-ups but I just feel that 21"/18" works really well for what I do. Anyway, we'll see what I can get.

And here one other issue plays a role: if you change the OD of the wheels, you also change the steering geometry. With a bigger F wheel, the forks will become more horizontally oriented. I do not know how much development work MZ put into steering geometry, or if the steering head angle of the SuperMotard version is different from other Skorpions, but offhand it might be sensible to not diverge too much from the original design. Of course it's your choice.

Interesting (and important) thoughts. Now, I don't know how much thought MZ gave the steering geometry in general but what I do know is the following:
1. The Baghira Enduro is used and loved by many as a dirt/trail bike/Enduro and it seems to perform really well.
2. The Enduro and SM models are virtually identical in all regards (geometry, components) - except the wheels (and brakes, ofc).
3. The Enduro model is rocking stock 21"/18" wheels.
4 Hence, swapping wheels (and brakes etc) would virtually make the Black Panther an Enduro.

How much weight is acceptable depends on your own physique & technique, but most of all on the conditions you ride in. On the big open plains in Africa a bit of weight hurts a lot less than on tight rocky forest climbs.

Yeah, the latter is what I mainly do. Rocky mountain paths, trails through the woods, gravel, some sand, some hard-packed dirt, some mud - European standard stuff.
I wouldn't say I'm strong, and I am very lightweight, BUT I'm in good shape and I know how to pick up a bike. So that works.

[Puffs]

I have no advice on complete wheels, I'd just buy rims & spokes then.

[Τοβίας Χάος]

I have no advice on complete wheels, I'd just buy rims & spokes then.

Thanks anyway!

That would be a solution, if an expensive one. Get rims and spokes, and use the rest from the SM wheels. I guess the SM brakes would be fine for trail riding as well. They are a bit bigger than the Enduro ones but that shouldn't be an issue (?)

Jeez, if rims weren't that expensive....