MZ ES 250/1 shifting issues

[grimstone]

OK,
THX for advice.
Today the fuel tap arrived so I will be replacing and will go for a drive with the bike which has 15W40 inside now. Also ordered a good SAE40 (Castrol R40).

With the clutch adjustment:
It is not the same , I have to look in manual for procedure. On the ES it seems a little bit more tricky.

I'll keep you posted.

[mr_luke]

Looking in the manual sounds like a good plan!

I don't have access to a manual for an ES250/1, but looking at photos and parts lists it looks to me as though the clutch works in exactly the same way. If you have to wind the adjuster at the handlebar lever all the way out, that sounds rather like the adjustment at the engine is wrong. If it's too much, you may not have enough travel left at the internal lever to lift the clutch plates sufficiently...

Good luck!

[grimstone]

So started today after new fuel tap installed.
I have 15W40 inside now. The idle is very high and I think the throttle cable is too short for the bike.
During the ride now the gears change somewhat normal, it is somehow hard to select neutral but I think i can get used to it. I observed that when I have some speed the gears change like a charm both up and down. If I stop the bike with the clutch pulled in there is no way I can get it out of 1'st into neutral with the foot, except I yank pretty hatd on the lever with my throttle hand.
So it may be the clutch not being adjusted of just very veru dirty inside.. I will have to make some more km's with this oil, see how dirty it will come out, and change it with the good SAE 40. We'll see.
I have to study how to adjust the clutch.
In the mean time any advice is welcomed.

[Puffs]

Why not just look in the workshop manual? See earlier links.

[grimstone]

this is what manual says:
It is advisable to make this setting on the vehicle. To do this, turn the quick adjustment on the clutch lever as far out as possible so that the full adjustment range is available and the coarse adjustment is knocked until there is 3 ... 4mm play on the clutch lever. Insert the adjusting plate and the rubber sealing ring, screw the end cap on. If the copper sealing rings of the fastening screws are tightly pressed, replace them with new ones. If the clutch cover has the bowden cable holder on the outside, then the adjusting plate (with bearing bushing) must be adjusted before the cover is attached. Use the pipe piece as an auxiliary tool to fit on the flat surface of the cover. Place the pipe, push the mandrel through the pipe and loosening the nipple. Then the coupling Bowden cable is attached! Make sure the sealing ring is in good condition (oil-tight!). Attach the cover as described in the previous version. In the case of the previous version with internal cable suspension, the pressure piece and bearing bush must also be changed in addition to the coupling cover. Once the engine is complete, don't forget to top up the gearbox lubricant: 750cm3 engine oil with a viscosity of 92cSt / 50 ° C12 ° E = SAE40 in summer 76cSt / 50 ° C10 ° E = SAE20 in winter. Use only unalloyed engine oils, all active ingredients (additives) cause clutch slippage. This also applies to graphite and molybdenum disulphide additives. Measure the amount of oil exactly. 'A little more' may be the cause that the maximum speed is missing 10 km / h. In this case, the clutch acts as a 'vortex brake'!

I am a little confused. I have another es175 engine snd I'll take a look inside that one maine I figure out how this adjustment works.

[grimstone]

It's definitivly something with the clutch. I maxed out the bottom adjusting screw and kept going with the handlebar ome until i made the clutch slip when i pressed the starter pedal in neutral. From there i screwed in the handlevar screw and maibe 1 more turn until the clutch engaged properly and would not slip.

Now with engine started and in first gear with clutch lever pulled and motorcycle standing cannot get out of first but when riding and pulling on the clutch the gears are changed flawlesly and if i press soft from second or lift soft from first it even gets in neutral .

Now i will check on the es175 how the rough adjusting mecanism works and I will try adjusting the clutch correctly. One more thing to do is maibe throu in a new unstreched cable....

Advise welcomed ...

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.

[grimstone]

Oh thx for the explanation. I do not quite undestand how that plate is locked after adjusting with the chisel and hammer .

Can you put a link to Bluerredman site?

Ps: I took out the 3 sctews on the cover plate ad revealed the inner. So that adjudting plate moves to the right or left but I do not understand why they show chisel and hammer in the manual. That plate can be rotated by hand and will take the slack out of the cable. Main issue that I see now is that plate is only friction locked there by the cover. Pressed betweed engine block and cover. So it can move if screws are not really tight. But screws are metal and inner thread is alu, I fear I will strip the threads. Good idea to make some indentations in the adjusting plate to grab firmer or do I need there a friction plate or something to provide estra frictuon between engine care and adjusting plate?

[grimstone]

Something is mentioned on manual about burr formation between 16 an 17 on the schematic in a previous post causing jerky clutch operation . I think that must I check and of course figure out how to make that rough adjusting plate stop rotating out of adjustment, because I fear I might damage the threads in the alu case if I tighten the bolts too much.

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.

[parrbd]

Isn't Castrol R40 straight bean oil? I used to run that in my TZ350's premix at 20:1. I had not thought about using it in the gearbox. Let ud know how it works.

[grimstone]

BM's website: see his signature in any of his posts, for instance https://mzriders.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12002

You lock the plate with the 3 screws. On my ETZ I have a big O-ring around the adjusting plate #18, which is compressed when you tighten the 3 screws through the cover, and thus locks that adjustment plate #18 (as well as seals the lot for oil). I do not know how that is done on the ES.

Yes, on my ETZ I never had to use a chisel either. So just rotate it by hand.

Other than that: I never worked on an ES, and the ES is probably different from my ETZ; hopefully someone with ES experience chimes in.

It seems the same on ES. I think I may also need a new oring

[grimstone]

Isn't Castrol R40 straight bean oil? I used to run that in my TZ350's premix at 20:1. I had not thought about using it in the gearbox. Let ud know how it works.

They say that it is pure castor oil base, sae 40.

From castrol site:
Castrol R40 provides the ultimate in lubrication. If the best possible performance coupled with reliability is the aim then the remarkable stamina and great film strength of Castrol R40 will provide a valuable margin of safety at ultra high engine speeds and temperatures. A castor based lubricant which is primarily designed for the racing world; however its unique properties can also benefit private owners interested in high performance.

[grimstone]

BM's website: see his signature in any of his posts, for instance https://mzriders.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12002

You lock the plate with the 3 screws. On my ETZ I have a big O-ring around the adjusting plate #18, which is compressed when you tighten the 3 screws through the cover, and thus locks that adjustment plate #18 (as well as seals the lot for oil). I do not know how that is done on the ES.

Yes, on my ETZ I never had to use a chisel either. So just rotate it by hand.

Other than that: I never worked on an ES, and the ES is probably different from my ETZ; hopefully someone with ES experience chimes in.

It seems the same on ES. I think I may also need a new oring

Yep I need new oring. If youvsay that the oring initially keeps the adjusting plate somehow snug, mine was full of red silicone everywhere and after cleaning it has huge play, maibe it is not even what it needs to be. Anyoane here can measure a new oring so I can source it locally?

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.