Timing a modified bike

ETZ(including Kanuni), ETS, ES, TS, IFA-RT, BK, Saxon,

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Timing a modified bike

Postby Blurredman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:12 am

Hey guys.

I'm using a 300cc re-bored 250 barrel and head on my ETZ 250.

Before re-bore the old piston was 0.4mm clearance to barrel, and I used 2.5mm before tdc, as standard, and the bike seemed to work pretty well.

But to accompany re-bore I had to replace bottom gasket, which wasn't as thick as the top gasket. Which was approximately 1mm in thickness, I therefore put an extra 1mm squish band (to make 2mm) at the top of the barrel to accompany this.

Anyway, When I set timing to 2.5mm before TDC the bike runs backwards in 50/50 chance !!


What should I do!? My brother and I have different theories. I have it currently at 3.5, and although it runs crappy it doesn't go backwards, but he thinks I should put the timing at 1.5mm before TDC.. what should I do!?
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
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Re: Timing a modified bike

Postby Skorpion » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:03 am

Hi.

The ETZ300 timeing is set at 2.5 to 2.75mm.

You check the squish band clearance using strip of 2mm solder inserted through the plug hole, when compressed by the piston you need it to measure 1.0-1.2mm,
check in more than one place around the piston crown.
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Re: Timing a modified bike

Postby Blurredman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:10 am

When the squish band is 1mm, and the timing is set to standard 2.5 BTDC.. it runs backwards! :roll:
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Timing a modified bike

Postby Skorpion » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:47 am

Skorpion wrote:Hi.

The ETZ300 timeing is set at 2.5 to 2.75mm.

You check the squish band clearance using strip of 2mm solder inserted through the plug hole, when compressed by the piston you need it to measure 1.0-1.2mm,
check in more than one place around the piston crown.


If setup like this it should not run backwards.
Recheck any other thing you have removed/changed ie contact breaker/cam.

I think as your brother says it would run better by retarding the ignition, BUT that is only MASKING the PROBLEM.
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Re: Timing a modified bike

Postby Blurredman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:05 am

Tonight, I will be making a timing disc and setting up timing with it running. 22* is what the official manual states, I will be interested in seeing how much the points carrier is out. Probably not by all that much in reality.


The only thing that is different would be the crank. As I had installed a new one (the big end disintegrated on old crank). I replaced the crank with a re-built item as this was a full engine re-build. I have used the original lobe, but I have tried different contact breakers. I'm guessing it is a possibility that the crank is a little off from the lobe, :roll: However, I do have my old crank and can compare the key angle. :mrgreen:
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Timing a modified bike

Postby Blurredman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:20 pm

So..

Tonight i used a timing light with a programmable offset. The end result is my required 'plug hole measurement' is 1.5mm, not 2.5.



Running lovely now..! Cheers Skorpion.
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Timing a modified bike

Postby DAVID THOMPSON » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:46 pm

as a point of reference most of the pump jack oil field engines 4t here in USA
are fixed at .020 gap and fire at 20 deg before top dead center
at 28oo to 3800 rpm any thing over 4000 and they do not last very long (run on natural gas)
old BMW was about 1000 rpm at idle and 9 deg before TDC
getting the dwell to long makes coil over heat
(points closed to long)

good read for the do it your self types is
http://www.gofastforless.com/

how to make it all run on the cheap
dave
Dave 2002 MZ RT125 +1995 Saxon Tour (rotax500cc)
1997 MZ Skorpion Traveller added 6/13/09
Located in WV USA
"I like the road less traveled if it's PAVED!"
E mail wd8cyv at yahoo dot com
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Re: Timing a modified bike

Postby AlanJ » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:15 am

Hi All,
Great post Scorpion. Just to a few pennoth to the mix if I remember rightly the Messerschmitt 3 wheeler had 2 sets of points, a standard set and an advanced set, you switch to the advanced set to fire the engine backwards. In theory you could do 65mph backwards using all 4 gears. That would have given a few onlookers a shock. I remember way back, I was up behind my bruv on his BSA Bantam going to work and we were on a slight slope opposite a bus stop,he stalled it so he clutched it and started it again, let go the clutch and backwards we went, much to the surprise of those at the stop. So, just a little too far advanced can certainly give some odd results. Just to add a little more, if you keep getting kick back then you are probably a tad too far advanced.
Take care All Alan
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Re: Timing a modified bike

Postby Blurredman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:53 am

Just to note, I did end up retarding the ignition by another half a mm, approximately 7 degrees? As it was still starting up backwards occasionally, most notibly when I applied choke on a running but still cold engine, or when it had stalled..

Seems good so far.. 8)
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm


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