Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Mechanical issues and How-to articles.

Moderators: DAVID THOMPSON, phlat65

Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Postby Blurredman » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:11 am

Hi Guys,


This morning I took two barrels (a 250 and a 300) with over-size pistons for re-bores.

I also gave the sheet of 0.035 (for 300cc piston) and 0.04mm (for 250cc piston) clearances accordingly with each piston and the guy that served me said he personally thought they were a little bit too tight for an air cooled bike, and normally they bore them a bit larger than that..


Just wondering what people's opinions are ?? Haynes and official service manual both state 0.04 (0.0015) for the 250cc... ?

I am not using original MZ pistons. The replacement ones seem to have a glossy silver shine.. Does that mean they expand faster and potentially more too??
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Postby Blurredman » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:52 am

Okay,

So in the end I opted for the recommendation the shop normally use for air cooled cylinders. That being 2 thou (around 0.05mm) for both.

I am unsure where these pistons originate but they look like they are cheap and would expand faster and possibly more than the original piston. It may seem a lot larger than the manual, but I think it is for the best. Esspecially considering one of the original pistons was 0.4mm undersized for the bore (I have been riding around on that for many years :lol: :lol: :lol: )

What is bore clearance measured? Is the 'piston/wall cleanrance' measure with the piston touching the opposit side of the barrel you are measuring or with the piston as central as possible?

I've used this piston machining shop before in the past, but i've merely given them the barrel and piston and said "here do this". They must have used 2thou clearance on that if it is their standard size tolerance.
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Postby Guesi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:21 pm

ETZ 250 and 300 with original piston have 0,05 mm clearance.
TS 250 have 0,04 mm
ES 250/2 have also 0,04 mm.

As you don´t use the original piston I cannot say what clearance you need. For Almot pistons some people here in germany use 0,06 mm or more.
Which means that the pistons make noise when the engine is cold.

And it does not matter where you measure the clearance.

On the piston there is the size printed (for example 69,48 ) .
So you add the clearance (for example ETZ 250 + 0,05 mm) and tell the machining shop to drill the hole 69,48 + 0,05 = 69,53 mm.
That´s all.....
Guesi Motorradteile
MZ spare parts
http://www.guesi-motorradteile.de
Guesi
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 2:12 am

Re: Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Postby Blurredman » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:33 am

That's interesting.

Because the Original 1981 service manual, haynes and indeed the 1989 engine maintenance video tape on youtube say 0.04mm for ETZ 250 piston clearance :shock:


300 piston is 1st oversize, the 250 piston is 4th oversize


Quick edit, the video actually does say 0.05mm.. Interesting.,
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Postby Guesi » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:53 am

Because the Original 1981 service manual

As far as I know, there was no ETZ 250 in 1981.
The ETZ came out in1983.

So 1981 was the TS 250/1 (Supa 5).

And for this engine 0,04 mm is right.

But ETZ has 0,05 mm (as you mentioned about the video).
Guesi Motorradteile
MZ spare parts
http://www.guesi-motorradteile.de
Guesi
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 2:12 am

Re: Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Postby Blurredman » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:21 am

Here is the manual for ETZ.

I assumed it came out in 1981 because that is what is printed on the manual 2nd page :shock:


ftp://mattswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/MZ_ETZ250-1981-Official_Service_Manual.pdf
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Postby Skorpion » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:51 am

Blurredman wrote:Here is the manual for ETZ.

I assumed it came out in 1981 because that is what is printed on the manual 2nd page :shock:


ftp://mattswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/MZ_ETZ250-1981-Official_Service_Manual.pdf



This manual also gives a mounting clearance of 0.05mm under picture Fig 48.

Back in the day I had two 300 barrels rebored, 0.05mm was the clearance used.
Skorpion
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:01 am

Re: Piston/Barrel Clearance sizes

Postby Blurredman » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:26 am

Okay, Not a problem.


What is the manual talking about in section 3.4.3.1.C ? What is this clearance?


Either way, I feel a lot happier about my choice. Thank you guys for also correcting me. It's been a great help.

Haynes obviously didn't get its bad reputation for nothing.. :roll: :roll:
1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9,00 miles - Mud :)
1981 Honda CX500B - 77,000 miles - Long Distance :)
1987 MZ ETZ300 - 29,000 miles - Sun :) - Engine just re-built!
1990 MZ ETZ251 - 40,000 miles - Commute :) - Sleeping for a while! 1/2/18

ftp://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/Vehicle_Documents/MZ_Documents/
Blurredman
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 pm


Return to Mechanic/Tech Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests